<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Difference Between Life and Living</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/</link>
	<description>A blog from inside the emergency department</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 06:31:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: sigh</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/#comment-49791</link>
		<dc:creator>sigh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Apr 2011 06:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-49791</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am chronically in pain and haven&#039;t enjoyed life in a decade for any reason. So I guess I am not living (I&#039;ll agree).. not sure anyone would put me down though]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am chronically in pain and haven&#8217;t enjoyed life in a decade for any reason. So I guess I am not living (I&#8217;ll agree).. not sure anyone would put me down though</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mama On A Budget</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/#comment-17020</link>
		<dc:creator>Mama On A Budget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 09:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-17020</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s a hard decision to make, but like others have said, knowing the patient&#039;s wishes before the medical crisis helps SO much.

I&#039;m an only child of a single parent.  When she had a stroke - and then lost part of her intestines when they became incarcerated in a hernia, resulting in dehydration (and then heart) issues - as hard as it was, I knew her decision was DNI/DNR/&quot;no heroic measures.&quot;  As her POA, I could have said anything I wanted to keep her &quot;alive&quot; for my own selfish reasons.  But even though doctors and surgeons fought me with &quot;but she&#039;s so young!&quot; when I refused intubation and cardiac catheterization tests, I knew I was doing what she wanted (and, thank God, she had a primary physician assigned to her in the ER that stood up with me against the pressure to &quot;test and try&quot; to extend her life.

Getting the call that she died was one of the hardest moments of my life.  I still remember exactly where I was standing when it came... three houses ago.  But I also know that her constant 1-2 week cycle of being transferred from nursing home to hospital for dehydration, organ failure, heart attack, another stroke (?), back to the nursing home and repeat... for her that hell was over and she was at peace.

And as much as I hated giving the orders to stop/not start all the tests, it was also freeing in that I knew they weren&#039;t MY orders but HERS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a hard decision to make, but like others have said, knowing the patient&#8217;s wishes before the medical crisis helps SO much.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m an only child of a single parent.  When she had a stroke &#8211; and then lost part of her intestines when they became incarcerated in a hernia, resulting in dehydration (and then heart) issues &#8211; as hard as it was, I knew her decision was DNI/DNR/&#8221;no heroic measures.&#8221;  As her POA, I could have said anything I wanted to keep her &#8220;alive&#8221; for my own selfish reasons.  But even though doctors and surgeons fought me with &#8220;but she&#8217;s so young!&#8221; when I refused intubation and cardiac catheterization tests, I knew I was doing what she wanted (and, thank God, she had a primary physician assigned to her in the ER that stood up with me against the pressure to &#8220;test and try&#8221; to extend her life.</p>
<p>Getting the call that she died was one of the hardest moments of my life.  I still remember exactly where I was standing when it came&#8230; three houses ago.  But I also know that her constant 1-2 week cycle of being transferred from nursing home to hospital for dehydration, organ failure, heart attack, another stroke (?), back to the nursing home and repeat&#8230; for her that hell was over and she was at peace.</p>
<p>And as much as I hated giving the orders to stop/not start all the tests, it was also freeing in that I knew they weren&#8217;t MY orders but HERS.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Heathen</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/#comment-2066</link>
		<dc:creator>Heathen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 00:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-2066</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s exactly right that you don&#039;t want a family member to feel responsible for &quot;killing&quot; a loved one. The way I phrase it is &quot;Discontinuing ineffective treatments.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s exactly right that you don&#8217;t want a family member to feel responsible for &#8220;killing&#8221; a loved one. The way I phrase it is &#8220;Discontinuing ineffective treatments.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: End of Life Decisions &#171; Medliorate</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/#comment-2065</link>
		<dc:creator>End of Life Decisions &#171; Medliorate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-2065</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The Difference Between Live and Living [WhiteCoat Rants] [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Difference Between Live and Living [WhiteCoat Rants] [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Biti živ ali živeti?</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/#comment-2064</link>
		<dc:creator>Biti živ ali živeti?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 06:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-2064</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Vir: The Difference Between Life and Living « WhiteCoat Rants [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Vir: The Difference Between Life and Living « WhiteCoat Rants [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dr. Greenbbs</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/#comment-2054</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Greenbbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-2054</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just had to deal with this the other night.

Had a John Doe come in to my ER, found in PEA in a snowbank in his parking lot of the condo complex he lived in.  Was walking the dog, and was found by a neighbor, after an undetermined amt of time.

EMS tubed him and after 2 or 3 rounds of resuscitative drugs, we got him back in sinus.  Well, we didn&#039;t have any information on who he was.  He didn&#039;t have any ID, wallet, or anything.  Initial labs weren&#039;t very revealing other than mildly elevated CKMB and Myoglobin (trops were normal at the time). So, after a less than eventful central and a-line placement, he journeyed to our ICU.

Found out that a couple hours later, the family was located and they d/c&#039;d full support because they knew he didn&#039;t want to go on just functioning.  Turns out this guy was a WWII and Korea vet.  Lived a long and full life.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just had to deal with this the other night.</p>
<p>Had a John Doe come in to my ER, found in PEA in a snowbank in his parking lot of the condo complex he lived in.  Was walking the dog, and was found by a neighbor, after an undetermined amt of time.</p>
<p>EMS tubed him and after 2 or 3 rounds of resuscitative drugs, we got him back in sinus.  Well, we didn&#8217;t have any information on who he was.  He didn&#8217;t have any ID, wallet, or anything.  Initial labs weren&#8217;t very revealing other than mildly elevated CKMB and Myoglobin (trops were normal at the time). So, after a less than eventful central and a-line placement, he journeyed to our ICU.</p>
<p>Found out that a couple hours later, the family was located and they d/c&#8217;d full support because they knew he didn&#8217;t want to go on just functioning.  Turns out this guy was a WWII and Korea vet.  Lived a long and full life.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peggy</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/#comment-2053</link>
		<dc:creator>Peggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-2053</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not convinced that people who are out of it and clearly dying aren&#039;t sometimes somehow aware that machines are keeping their blood pumping and their lungs breathing, experiencing pain despite narcotics, and aware that they are being held captive in their dying bodies and desperately not wanting that. And why would any anyone think that such a person, no matter how much he/she adored his/her family and friends really care what they have to say at this point?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not convinced that people who are out of it and clearly dying aren&#8217;t sometimes somehow aware that machines are keeping their blood pumping and their lungs breathing, experiencing pain despite narcotics, and aware that they are being held captive in their dying bodies and desperately not wanting that. And why would any anyone think that such a person, no matter how much he/she adored his/her family and friends really care what they have to say at this point?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/#comment-2052</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-2052</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m in the NICU this month and today was just a crap day - we had two patients succumb to their illnesses.  With one patient that I had been directly caring for since her exit from the womb two weeks ago, she had been circling the drain for days - more acidotic, bacteremia, escalating vent settings, etc.  Her parents were fixated on the fact that if we got her blood infection cleared, she&#039;d be ok.  Problem is, she has VATER sequence and underwent intestinal repair on the first day of life and in addition to her significant intestinal anomalies, she&#039;s in liver failure.  We sono&#039;d her head today and she&#039;s got bilateral grade III IVH - much worse from 10 days ago and explains where all the platelets are going.

We&#039;ve been letting the parents come to terms with this on their own - not pushing them to make a decision about continuing care.  However, when the morphine doesn&#039;t work and her brain and lungs are giving out...there&#039;s really nothing else we can do.  After updating her mom again today, she actually asked us how we would &quot;do it&quot; if they decided enough was enough.

Tonight enough was enough for their little girl.

It sucks.  Hard.

I&#039;m in pediatrics so it may be different, but what many attendings I&#039;ve worked with do is similar to what we did for this patient: present the evidence but don&#039;t give false hope.  Be open and honest and let them make the decision.  Also, keep them well-informed.  Often the more people you have talk to them to keep them apprised of what&#039;s going on (nursing, subspecialists) will make them feel comfortable with what&#039;s going on.  It doesn&#039;t make it any easier but I think families feel better knowing they made the decision to stop care rather than having it made for them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in the NICU this month and today was just a crap day &#8211; we had two patients succumb to their illnesses.  With one patient that I had been directly caring for since her exit from the womb two weeks ago, she had been circling the drain for days &#8211; more acidotic, bacteremia, escalating vent settings, etc.  Her parents were fixated on the fact that if we got her blood infection cleared, she&#8217;d be ok.  Problem is, she has VATER sequence and underwent intestinal repair on the first day of life and in addition to her significant intestinal anomalies, she&#8217;s in liver failure.  We sono&#8217;d her head today and she&#8217;s got bilateral grade III IVH &#8211; much worse from 10 days ago and explains where all the platelets are going.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve been letting the parents come to terms with this on their own &#8211; not pushing them to make a decision about continuing care.  However, when the morphine doesn&#8217;t work and her brain and lungs are giving out&#8230;there&#8217;s really nothing else we can do.  After updating her mom again today, she actually asked us how we would &#8220;do it&#8221; if they decided enough was enough.</p>
<p>Tonight enough was enough for their little girl.</p>
<p>It sucks.  Hard.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in pediatrics so it may be different, but what many attendings I&#8217;ve worked with do is similar to what we did for this patient: present the evidence but don&#8217;t give false hope.  Be open and honest and let them make the decision.  Also, keep them well-informed.  Often the more people you have talk to them to keep them apprised of what&#8217;s going on (nursing, subspecialists) will make them feel comfortable with what&#8217;s going on.  It doesn&#8217;t make it any easier but I think families feel better knowing they made the decision to stop care rather than having it made for them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: msh</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/#comment-2051</link>
		<dc:creator>msh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-2051</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been working in ICU for many years...in my experience the more papers people have saying what they don&#039;t want...the more gets done to them.  Am I the only one who sees this?.... Its all up to the family anyway, no matter what is on the papers.  I tell families of dying patients that they are not &quot;making the decision&quot;..they are &quot;carrying out the decisions that X has already made&quot;

Also that if they are waiting for God to intervene or a miracle...not having a ventilator isn&#039;t going to prevent THAT.

&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;I see this frequently. It puts the healthcare providers in a difficult position. When patients are near death, unfortunately some family members don&#039;t think quite as rationally. &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been working in ICU for many years&#8230;in my experience the more papers people have saying what they don&#8217;t want&#8230;the more gets done to them.  Am I the only one who sees this?&#8230;. Its all up to the family anyway, no matter what is on the papers.  I tell families of dying patients that they are not &#8220;making the decision&#8221;..they are &#8220;carrying out the decisions that X has already made&#8221;</p>
<p>Also that if they are waiting for God to intervene or a miracle&#8230;not having a ventilator isn&#8217;t going to prevent THAT.</p>
<p><em><strong>I see this frequently. It puts the healthcare providers in a difficult position. When patients are near death, unfortunately some family members don&#8217;t think quite as rationally. </strong></em></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: smd1985</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2008/02/the-difference-between-life-and-living/#comment-2050</link>
		<dc:creator>smd1985</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whitecoatrants.wordpress.com/?p=157#comment-2050</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am a nurse in a PCU and deal with this on almost daily. I alway wonder who the family is keeping the patient alive for. Sometimes I can understand it when the family is actively involved with the patient(regular family visits,pics on the walls,cards &amp; letters). But I care for so many people who NEVER get visits. We keep them alive for what? They live in a limbo, not dead but surely not alive. Death is a naturalthing we are born and then we die. I truely believe that God takes us when it&#039;s time. We can go peacefully with dignity or go clawing and fighting but we all go in the end. It&#039;s better to make the death a good one for everyone. It will always be sad, but they have to be in a better place.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a nurse in a PCU and deal with this on almost daily. I alway wonder who the family is keeping the patient alive for. Sometimes I can understand it when the family is actively involved with the patient(regular family visits,pics on the walls,cards &amp; letters). But I care for so many people who NEVER get visits. We keep them alive for what? They live in a limbo, not dead but surely not alive. Death is a naturalthing we are born and then we die. I truely believe that God takes us when it&#8217;s time. We can go peacefully with dignity or go clawing and fighting but we all go in the end. It&#8217;s better to make the death a good one for everyone. It will always be sad, but they have to be in a better place.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
