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	<title>Comments on: The Triumvirate</title>
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	<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/11/the-triumvirate/</link>
	<description>A blog from inside the emergency department</description>
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		<title>By: StudentNurse</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/11/the-triumvirate/#comment-15183</link>
		<dc:creator>StudentNurse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=3742#comment-15183</guid>
		<description>Not to be a huge bitch.....But I will anyway:

For those who suffer from chronic pain, fibro, IBS, etc...who seem so upset by the observations of ED physicians and nurses posting here, I have this to say:

Realize this ain&#039;t about you.  You are taking the stated observations of people who work with hundreds of patients per week too personally.  Each person is an individual, however, these smart people who have medical degrees and nursing licenses are sharp enough to be able to synthesize the trends they see week to week.  As another nurse described earlier, crazy is as crazy does.  Not all chronic paineurs are lying sacks with somatoform d/o&#039;s.  That is evident by the way they behave (subjective) and data like vital signs, lab results, and physical exams (objective).  I believe the term is &quot;down the hall diagnosis.&quot;  Most of the time, the combination of behavior, allergies, PMH, and currents meds is enough to see these people coming from a mile away.  Does that mean that staff do not make the effort to rule out emergent problems that could still be legitimately occurring?  Of course not.  But it doesn&#039;t mean that staff should be kissing their asses and putting on their kid gloves to pass out the vitamin D.

Since I&#039;m willing to give *most* doctors the benefit of the doubt, maybe you should understand that when doctors generalize about a certain subset of patients, it ain&#039;t about you.  It&#039;s a generalization based upon the thousands of patients these people have treated through the course of their careers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to be a huge bitch&#8230;..But I will anyway:</p>
<p>For those who suffer from chronic pain, fibro, IBS, etc&#8230;who seem so upset by the observations of ED physicians and nurses posting here, I have this to say:</p>
<p>Realize this ain&#8217;t about you.  You are taking the stated observations of people who work with hundreds of patients per week too personally.  Each person is an individual, however, these smart people who have medical degrees and nursing licenses are sharp enough to be able to synthesize the trends they see week to week.  As another nurse described earlier, crazy is as crazy does.  Not all chronic paineurs are lying sacks with somatoform d/o&#8217;s.  That is evident by the way they behave (subjective) and data like vital signs, lab results, and physical exams (objective).  I believe the term is &#8220;down the hall diagnosis.&#8221;  Most of the time, the combination of behavior, allergies, PMH, and currents meds is enough to see these people coming from a mile away.  Does that mean that staff do not make the effort to rule out emergent problems that could still be legitimately occurring?  Of course not.  But it doesn&#8217;t mean that staff should be kissing their asses and putting on their kid gloves to pass out the vitamin D.</p>
<p>Since I&#8217;m willing to give *most* doctors the benefit of the doubt, maybe you should understand that when doctors generalize about a certain subset of patients, it ain&#8217;t about you.  It&#8217;s a generalization based upon the thousands of patients these people have treated through the course of their careers.</p>
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		<title>By: cynic</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/11/the-triumvirate/#comment-14877</link>
		<dc:creator>cynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 09:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=3742#comment-14877</guid>
		<description>This may help....

http://www.wikihow.com/Overcome-Martyr-Syndrome</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may help&#8230;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wikihow.com/Overcome-Martyr-Syndrome" rel="nofollow">http://www.wikihow.com/Overcome-Martyr-Syndrome</a></p>
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		<title>By: ERP</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/11/the-triumvirate/#comment-14872</link>
		<dc:creator>ERP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=3742#comment-14872</guid>
		<description>I agree with Brett. It would be extremely strange that you received no work up for severe abdominal pain. I have only done this with patients who have had large, recently negative workups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Brett. It would be extremely strange that you received no work up for severe abdominal pain. I have only done this with patients who have had large, recently negative workups.</p>
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		<title>By: brett</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/11/the-triumvirate/#comment-14868</link>
		<dc:creator>brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=3742#comment-14868</guid>
		<description>&quot;Last night I went to the ER with the worst stabbing stomach pains of my life. After looking over my chart and taking my temp, I was sent home with a bottle of Mylanta.&quot;

I call BS on that.  Almost everyone with abd pain gets a work up with lab tests and imaging that usually is not needed.  You would have to look exceptionally well if that is all you got.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Last night I went to the ER with the worst stabbing stomach pains of my life. After looking over my chart and taking my temp, I was sent home with a bottle of Mylanta.&#8221;</p>
<p>I call BS on that.  Almost everyone with abd pain gets a work up with lab tests and imaging that usually is not needed.  You would have to look exceptionally well if that is all you got.</p>
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		<title>By: patientx</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/11/the-triumvirate/#comment-14863</link>
		<dc:creator>patientx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 04:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=3742#comment-14863</guid>
		<description>Wow. Just wow. One look at the patient&#039;s history and you formed such a negative opinion?

I haved been diagnosed w/2 out 3 of those. I have never asked anyone for a pain shot or anything more powerful that some Gabapentin and once some Imatrex. I fought hard against getting the label &quot;fibromyalgia&quot; because I knew how that would be perceived. Seems I was right.

Last night I went to the ER with the worst stabbing stomach pains of my life. After looking over my chart and taking my temp, I was sent home with a bottle of Mylanta. Obviously that has not helped. THe thing is, doctors like you are the reason why I avoid ERs like the plague that they are and I&#039;d rather writhe in pain than encounter your type again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. Just wow. One look at the patient&#8217;s history and you formed such a negative opinion?</p>
<p>I haved been diagnosed w/2 out 3 of those. I have never asked anyone for a pain shot or anything more powerful that some Gabapentin and once some Imatrex. I fought hard against getting the label &#8220;fibromyalgia&#8221; because I knew how that would be perceived. Seems I was right.</p>
<p>Last night I went to the ER with the worst stabbing stomach pains of my life. After looking over my chart and taking my temp, I was sent home with a bottle of Mylanta. Obviously that has not helped. THe thing is, doctors like you are the reason why I avoid ERs like the plague that they are and I&#8217;d rather writhe in pain than encounter your type again.</p>
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		<title>By: Painless</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/11/the-triumvirate/#comment-14830</link>
		<dc:creator>Painless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=3742#comment-14830</guid>
		<description>My 2 cents? I&#039;m an ED Nurse who also has chronic pain. I see my pain doctor and get my pump filled every few months and life is good. When I was on oral medication, and I started to get low, I contacted my physician and he treated me. I have seen folks  jump out of the tricked out jacked up pickup truck, walk half way across the parking lot then double over and complain of pain they just happened to run out of their dilaudid for on a weekend. I have seen folks tear up scripts of pain medication because it&#039;s not &quot;what they want&quot;.... ummm... I mean what works for them. I have seen them walk out of the ED refusing care because we were going to give antibiotics for the abscess they had instead of giving them a pain shot - when they were in for the same problem 3 days earlier and did not fill the antibiotics but did fill the pain medication and used it all up. 
I have seen, have helped treat and have felt sympathy for folks who have come into my ED at 2am with an exacerbation of their chronic pain. They have taken their pain pills, brought in the bottle (with plenty left by the way), letting me know that it&#039;s just not touching the pain. 
I feel for those in chronic pain, I&#039;m actually one of you. However, you don&#039;t come into the ED weekly or even more often, with a chief complaint of migraine, or fibromyalgia pain or IBS. The folks who generally get talked badly about are those who present weekly or there abouts. You know them by name. They are given scripts for 30 or 60 pills and blow through them within a couple of days. They never follow up with their primary physician for their care. The ED physician is their doctor. These are the folks who are allergic to everything EXCEPT their drug of choice - usually an extremely potent narcotic. These are the folks who are allergic to new pain medications DAY&#039;s after they are released (anyone remember when Toradol and Ultram were released?... I do. I remember folks being allergic the first day we had it in the ED to give). Please don&#039;t take these rantings personally - no one is looking at you and clustering you in the drug seeking group. Unfortunately though, when you come to the ED weekly, allergic to everything but Dilaudid, do bring your screaming kids with you (and you drove yourself), talking on the cell phone, DEMANDING (yes, not asking, DEMANDING) your pain shot before you are even seen, refusing any other therapy or exam along the way - you might be classified as a drug seeker.  Even joking. You are what you present yourself to be. If you are honest, upfront and work with the system you will be rewarded with being treated with compassion and respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My 2 cents? I&#8217;m an ED Nurse who also has chronic pain. I see my pain doctor and get my pump filled every few months and life is good. When I was on oral medication, and I started to get low, I contacted my physician and he treated me. I have seen folks  jump out of the tricked out jacked up pickup truck, walk half way across the parking lot then double over and complain of pain they just happened to run out of their dilaudid for on a weekend. I have seen folks tear up scripts of pain medication because it&#8217;s not &#8220;what they want&#8221;&#8230;. ummm&#8230; I mean what works for them. I have seen them walk out of the ED refusing care because we were going to give antibiotics for the abscess they had instead of giving them a pain shot &#8211; when they were in for the same problem 3 days earlier and did not fill the antibiotics but did fill the pain medication and used it all up.<br />
I have seen, have helped treat and have felt sympathy for folks who have come into my ED at 2am with an exacerbation of their chronic pain. They have taken their pain pills, brought in the bottle (with plenty left by the way), letting me know that it&#8217;s just not touching the pain.<br />
I feel for those in chronic pain, I&#8217;m actually one of you. However, you don&#8217;t come into the ED weekly or even more often, with a chief complaint of migraine, or fibromyalgia pain or IBS. The folks who generally get talked badly about are those who present weekly or there abouts. You know them by name. They are given scripts for 30 or 60 pills and blow through them within a couple of days. They never follow up with their primary physician for their care. The ED physician is their doctor. These are the folks who are allergic to everything EXCEPT their drug of choice &#8211; usually an extremely potent narcotic. These are the folks who are allergic to new pain medications DAY&#8217;s after they are released (anyone remember when Toradol and Ultram were released?&#8230; I do. I remember folks being allergic the first day we had it in the ED to give). Please don&#8217;t take these rantings personally &#8211; no one is looking at you and clustering you in the drug seeking group. Unfortunately though, when you come to the ED weekly, allergic to everything but Dilaudid, do bring your screaming kids with you (and you drove yourself), talking on the cell phone, DEMANDING (yes, not asking, DEMANDING) your pain shot before you are even seen, refusing any other therapy or exam along the way &#8211; you might be classified as a drug seeker.  Even joking. You are what you present yourself to be. If you are honest, upfront and work with the system you will be rewarded with being treated with compassion and respect.</p>
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		<title>By: brett</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/11/the-triumvirate/#comment-14822</link>
		<dc:creator>brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=3742#comment-14822</guid>
		<description>Paul, that is a decent 2 cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, that is a decent 2 cents.</p>
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		<title>By: DensityDuck</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/11/the-triumvirate/#comment-14819</link>
		<dc:creator>DensityDuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=3742#comment-14819</guid>
		<description>:rolleyes:  Dude, whatever.  I&#039;m just saying that there needs to be an option for nonscheduled treatment that *isn&#039;t* the ER.  It says a lot about you that you would immediately post your life story in response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>:rolleyes:  Dude, whatever.  I&#8217;m just saying that there needs to be an option for nonscheduled treatment that *isn&#8217;t* the ER.  It says a lot about you that you would immediately post your life story in response.</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/11/the-triumvirate/#comment-14811</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=3742#comment-14811</guid>
		<description>wow erp really opened a can of worms with this one. still, what can you expect with such a thriving online chronic pain community? my 2 cents?

in my experience there are certain diagnoses which seem to coincide with psych problems, or at least with difficult personalities. crohn&#039;s disease, multiple sclerosis, and diabetic gastroparesis for example.

then there are some diagnoses that seem to span a wide spectrum from clear-cut disease with objective physical findings to very questionable patients that claim to carry the diagnosis but who knows. migraines, reflex sympathetic dystrophy, cyclic vomiting syndrome.

finally there are diagnoses that completely mystify me, in that as far as i can tell there&#039;s no way to prove conclusively that you have it or you don&#039;t. fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, irritable bowel syndrome. i mean not even an elevated esr? of course one of my mentors used to say every patient needs an esr or a doctor but never both... but i digress.

in our line of work, this is complicated by the fact that chances are we&#039;ve never seen you before, and never will again. now i believe that anyone who feels they are in pain or suffering, regardless of the underlying cause (psychiatric or otherwise), are actually suffering and deserve the appropriate compassion and treatment. but you have to realize that you are mixed in with a steady stream of people who are just trying to scam us for narcotics, work notes, what have you. if you have some chronic condition that is debilitating and constantly impacts your life, it is imperative to be locked into a pcp or chronic pain doc or whatever that helps you manage your condition without going to the ed where you&#039;ll be seen by a doc who doesn&#039;t know you and just saw a scam artist with the same complaints and the same paucity of objective findings.

i like to think i&#039;m experienced enough to have a decent bs radar but it can be difficult, especially when the volume is high and some of the other patients have more pressing emergencies (in the sense that they&#039;ll die without immediate attention). very easy for people not in the trenches to claim the docs on this thread are lacking in compassion or &quot;have no brain cells&quot; but when the shit hits the fan i would choose the jaded ed doc who manages my emergency competently over the touchy feely doc that treats fibromyalgeurs with respect. (of course, the ideal doc can do both...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow erp really opened a can of worms with this one. still, what can you expect with such a thriving online chronic pain community? my 2 cents?</p>
<p>in my experience there are certain diagnoses which seem to coincide with psych problems, or at least with difficult personalities. crohn&#8217;s disease, multiple sclerosis, and diabetic gastroparesis for example.</p>
<p>then there are some diagnoses that seem to span a wide spectrum from clear-cut disease with objective physical findings to very questionable patients that claim to carry the diagnosis but who knows. migraines, reflex sympathetic dystrophy, cyclic vomiting syndrome.</p>
<p>finally there are diagnoses that completely mystify me, in that as far as i can tell there&#8217;s no way to prove conclusively that you have it or you don&#8217;t. fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, irritable bowel syndrome. i mean not even an elevated esr? of course one of my mentors used to say every patient needs an esr or a doctor but never both&#8230; but i digress.</p>
<p>in our line of work, this is complicated by the fact that chances are we&#8217;ve never seen you before, and never will again. now i believe that anyone who feels they are in pain or suffering, regardless of the underlying cause (psychiatric or otherwise), are actually suffering and deserve the appropriate compassion and treatment. but you have to realize that you are mixed in with a steady stream of people who are just trying to scam us for narcotics, work notes, what have you. if you have some chronic condition that is debilitating and constantly impacts your life, it is imperative to be locked into a pcp or chronic pain doc or whatever that helps you manage your condition without going to the ed where you&#8217;ll be seen by a doc who doesn&#8217;t know you and just saw a scam artist with the same complaints and the same paucity of objective findings.</p>
<p>i like to think i&#8217;m experienced enough to have a decent bs radar but it can be difficult, especially when the volume is high and some of the other patients have more pressing emergencies (in the sense that they&#8217;ll die without immediate attention). very easy for people not in the trenches to claim the docs on this thread are lacking in compassion or &#8220;have no brain cells&#8221; but when the shit hits the fan i would choose the jaded ed doc who manages my emergency competently over the touchy feely doc that treats fibromyalgeurs with respect. (of course, the ideal doc can do both&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: The Seeker</title>
		<link>http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2009/11/the-triumvirate/#comment-14810</link>
		<dc:creator>The Seeker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=3742#comment-14810</guid>
		<description>[...] is a repost of an old post - coming on the heels of the post I did on WhiteCoat&#8217;s blog that caused quite a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is a repost of an old post &#8211; coming on the heels of the post I did on WhiteCoat&#8217;s blog that caused quite a [...]</p>
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