The parent of a patient that we saw in our ED last night upset staff members.
One of her three children was out riding a bicycle without shoes and her foot got cut on the pedal of the bicycle. As we were cleansing and sewing up the laceration, the mother promised to take the children to get ice cream after we were done.
I discussed follow up instructions with the mother and she asked whether her child would be in pain. I told her that there might be some pain, but that Motrin should take care of it. She asked me if I planned to write a prescription and I told her that the over the counter Motrin would be fine. Then she got a little more assertive.
“We have Medicaid. I want you to write a prescription so we don’t have to pay for it.”
“You can get a bottle of liquid Motrin at the Dollar Store … if she even develops any pain.”
“I don’t have a dollar to spend at the Dollar Store.”
That ticked me off.
“But you’ve been promising your children that you would take them out to get ice cream when we were finished. You have money to buy ice cream but you don’t have money to buy medicine?”
“Are you going to write my child … the prescription … or not?”
“No, I think you’ll be able to get everything she needs over the counter.”
The nurse came to get me out of another patient’s room and told me that the mother was causing a scene in the hallway because I wouldn’t give her child a prescription for Motrin.
I wasn’t willing to argue with the mother any more, so I wrote the child a prescription for Motrin – 20 milliliters – which is a little more than a tablespoon – and which would cover the patient for two doses in case she did have any pain. The mom smiled, thanked the nurse, then left.
The thing that got so many staff members irritated was that the whole family was well-dressed, the mother had an iPhone and gold jewelry, and the kids were all eating stuff from the vending machine while they were waiting to be seen.
So we got into a discussion.
One nurse said that a patient in the grocery store was offering to pay for peoples’ groceries with food stamps if the people would give her the cash afterwards. A second nurse mentioned how she frequently saw people purchasing junk food in the grocery stores with food stamps then ringing up a second order with cases of beer and cigarettes that they purchased with cash. Our unit secretary noted how one of the patients who frequently comes to the emergency department with back pain and who is on public aid drives a Cadillac Escalade.
What possessions are reasonable for patients on public aid? What measures should be taken to make sure they aren’t gaming the system? Should we even care?
All I know is that this little girl’s mother really put a damper on the shift for a lot of the people who were working in the ED that night – to pay for the woman’s iPhone data package and that tablespoon of Motrin for her child.
I’ve sadly become desensitized to the people driving expensive cars, having more gold on their person than a jewelry store, and/or having the latest and most expensive cell phones after working in retail pharmacy. The one case I rememeber that really pissed me off was a guy coming through the drive thru at a store I was floating at and had a bunch of medications with the copay total being about $5, cash price for the meds would have been about $400 or so. He opens up his center consul and there is a wad of money in there. He closes the consul and then asks to waive the copays because “he doesn’t have any money right now” and he’s on medicaid. I understand when people really can’t afford even a couple of bucks for medications but to see them have me waive the copays and then go drop $60 on beer and tobacco at the front registers really pisses me off.
I think these are all perfect examples of how a few people abusing the system can leave a bad taste in the mouths of everyone else. The solution of course is not so simple. Once tighter regulations are instituted and less people are given the leniency to abuse, the counter-effect is that legitimate, deserving people are left out in the cold. It boils down to the exchange of sensitivity vs specificity of the system; we can’t have both (unless of course we pay for both).
In your case of the woman wanting a script for Motrin, I was unclear if she was on public aid or not. If she pays for a no-deductible prescription plan than she would have every right to desire a script over paying out-of-pocket. The pettiness of said preference ($1) is merely a reflection of her character; petty people are everywhere. I don’t think we as healthcare providers are in any position to make judgment on how people chose to spend their money. However, one could argue (with good reason) that she is contributing to the abuse of our healthcare system by demanding a script which will inevitably cost more to distribute than picking up the meds over the counter at the dollar store. This is probably a different discussion.
When I worked as a paramedic, I would frequently respond to nice $400k homes, which is quite pricey for rural/suburban Arizona. In the driveway: a beamer and H2. In the house: a decked out home theater, complete with the latest gaming system, etc. Medical insurance: AHCCCS (Arizona’s medicaid, which is not “insurance”).
We have all struggled with these issues. In terms of public aid abuse I’ve tried to look at the big picture. Remember that aid can be transient and the family living in the huge house may have just lost their main source of income, and thus, their insurance also (COBRA is pretty expensive). To some, this means immediate down-sizing is called for – sell the car, phones, TV, etc. [Although, AT&T probably doesn't care about your financial problems when they charge you full price for your iPhone plus cancellation charges for ending your contract early] That seems like a bit much. Public aid as a stop-gap is a great idea. We all pay in, so when bad stuff happens to us, or our families/neighbors/friends, our lives aren’t disrupted too much. That’s acceptable to me…again, for the interim. The poor financial planning on the part of this extravagantly-spending family is unfortunate (for the kids) and our society doesn’t really punish senseless people.
The frequent flyers that drive the caddys and the like (as this mother is implied to be)… I think we have a responsibility not only has healthcare providers but as tax-paying citizens to do something about that abuse. Unfortunately, I don’t think there is necessarily any defined, legal reporting system, so the buck seems to stop with you. In this case, it was decided that she was not worth any more effort…think of all the time you didn’t waste by not dealing with it anymore, and you got the added bonus of fixing the little girl’s foot despite the mom. Sorry about the downer on your shift though.
When my kids and pregnant me were on OHP (Oregon’s plan) after my husband was unemployed, the main phone number you had to call to ask questions always had an option for reporting medicaid fraud.
I’m sure there has to be some option like this for each state. Why aren’t hospitals and pharmacists using it?
My husband had a great job. He lost it. We spent 7 months paying $600/mo COBRA payments. He has a job now, and getting benefits in Jan. So for now we have medicaid. Except we make too much money to get it for free. I pay $220 per month for me and my husband. It does not cover his $250 prescription Clobex lotion for his psoriasis. So we pay cash for that. He makes it last as long as possible, usually 3 mos.
Now, I wouldn’t even think of getting a script for motrin. However, there are other OTC medications that can be a bit pricy. For a period of time, I required daily ranitidine. Initially, my doctor wrote a script for it. After a while, he refused. He said it was OTC and that even though medicaid covered it, he felt that because it was OTC he wouldn’t write it for me.
I did end up paying for it myself. On top of the $220 monthly medicaid premiums and my husband’s $250 Clobex lotion AND then the ranitidine.
I guess, I was abusing the system with the ranitidine.
Soon, my husband’s job will have health insurance. I can’t wait. I hate knowing that I’m being judged all the time. I hide my cell phone if I ever go to the doctor. I leave my engagement ring at home. Everyone thinks I’m getting it for free. *I wish*
FYI,
65 pills of ranitidine 150mg is $4 at Wal-Mart.
Only with their four dollar prescription program.
Nope, it’s on the OTC $4 list, at least per the Wal-Mart website:
http://i.walmart.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/OTC_drug_List.pdf
Judge not lest ye be judged. Walk a mile in my shoes.
You have no idea what this woman may be going through or how she arrived at her present condition. If you or your husband lost your job today how long could you last? Would you sell your wallet or purse the next day? Would or could you sell your house tomorrow? Assuming anyone would buy it?
And I get really peeved, although I don’t respond to them with anger, when a healthcare provider, be they doctor, nurse or nurse practioner, suggests that I try valerian or glucosamine-chondroiton instead of a proven prescription. Some of those herbal supplements are quite costly, not covered by insurance, and are not even tested/approved by the FDA. Give me tried and true meds, not some herbal junk that cost a fortune and don’t even work.
This woman had her reasons for asking for a prescription and you have no right to judge her. She was obviously concerned about her child’s condition — perhaps the child reacted better to a placebo than the regular run-of-the-mill tylenol or motrin… Are you going to be there in the middle of the night when the child awakes, crying and complaining of pain?
Yes, we all pay for this aid. Are we not our brother’s keeper? I’m really not religious, but I feel we have a responsibility to help our fellow human beings, okay? The meds were for the child, not the mother. Would you deny the child some relief from pain or have you become inured to the human condition?
Perhaps the child reacted better to placebo? There is no mention of placebo in Whitecoat’s post, nor was the mother asking for it.
There are those who will ask for an Rx for anything- and some will even voice that they want the Rx for tylenol/motrin/bacitracin/etc because they won’t have to pay for it if they do.
If, like another poster said, they have a pharmacy plan where it is free after a deductible, then hell yeah, give ‘em the script. The problem is, in my experience, usually they ask for this right as they are walking out the door and are generally not kind when they ask. They demand it, expect it, and are rude. Sure, some are fine, but there is a way to act that will get you what you want/need, and being sassy just isn’t it.
Glucosamine chondroiten has been proven to decrease knee pain…just because it’s not studied like a prescription doesn’t mean it’s ineffective.
What the hell planet are you living on? You state “This woman had her reasons for asking for a prescription.” You bet she had her reason – and it comes down to four simple letters FREE. She clearly had the money to CHOOSE to purchase ice-cream for her child. She could CHOOSE to purchase Motrin (if it is even needed) with that money INSTEAD of buying the ice-cream. That is how those of us in the real world live. This person decided that she WAS ENTITLED to FREE medication and she damn well was going to get it – whether it was even needed or not.
It is your mentality that is killing this country.
“What Jeff said” !!!!
I think everyone needs to participate in and contribute to their own health care. As the provider, I sometimes get to decide how that participation is defined. That can mean doing your exercises for your back, cutting down on sugar for your diabetes, or being on the hook for paying for your meds. I don’t write scripts for OTCs for Medicaid patients, unless it’s for a kid. It’s not their fault their paren’t won’t “splurge” on their medicine.
Answer: Used TV from Craigslist with basic cable, DVD player from Craigslist, dish set from the thrift store, bus pass or jalopy, thrift store or consignment shop clothes, one nice outfit for job interviews, free or Craigslist couch for $50, library card for books and free DVD rentals and computer access, mattress on the floor with sheets and blankets, and a basic cell phone (the free one) with voice mail. Anything else is really just you being a societal leech.
Things like “savings accounts” and “investment portfolios” really aren’t in these peoples’ psyches.
damn it damn it damn it. I totally understand why you gave into this woman for the sake of your staff and the rest of the people in the ED, but I just want one welfare abuser to not whine and make a scene to actually get their way.
I hate to see them whine and cry too but, I have to admit, I smile a little when I see a physician not give in to that type of demanding behavior. I say tell them no and if they throw a fit call security and put them out on their a$$!!!
I also tend to look at the big picture. Although I agree with Dr. WhiteCoat, one thing is true: people do not necessarily understand the system. The classical one is the fellow shouting to a politician: Hey Congressman, don’t let the government take your MEDICARE!.
But in the big scheme of things, “penny wise, pound foolish”. We might see the little copays, the stinginess for the OTC drug, but how about the $700-billion bailout? How about the bailout for AIG? For Freddie Mac, or Fannie Mae? Or the 50%-off penalty discount (2.5-billion) to Exxon Mobil for the Exxon Valdez oil spill in Prince William Sound?
If we pay attention to the big picture, those idiosyncracies of people, well, are just that, great topics for a chat. However, the big ones go unnoticed. It’s the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
they shouldn’t be allowed to do any of that. i have an iphone, the monthly cost is freaking expensive. i want MORE govt intrusion in peoples lives if they are getting public support. i wish they would investigate what these people spend their money on, and if that have crap like iphones they should loose their support. no cigarettes. no alcohol. + drug screen should put them in jail. we have got to get tougher on people show that them that they have consequences to their actions
instead…we baby them. that’s why people in this country are lazy and dont want to work
WC: Tell us the race of this family.
Why does it matter?
The rate of bastardy among dark skinned people in the US is very high. Morality is a synonym for the word, no. In the absence of fathers, people tend to grow up amoral. The lawyer destroyed the black family, after it had survived slavery, war, discrimination, genocidal terrorism by the terror branch of the Democrat Party, the KKK, and severe poverty. It could not survive the onslaught of the lawyer. So, black folks commit and endure more crime, as a cultural legacy of bastardy. The KKK was a lawyer founded and run fraternal organization.
Someone has to explain why black folks continue to vote for the Democrat Party, the party of slavery, genocide, and high crime rates.
Don’t feed the racist troll…his mullet might catch fire in the trailer and hurt his pit bull!
Back to the scheduled adult conversation…..
Pattie: Darker skinned Africans and Caribbean, recent immigrants are doing better than white people in the 2000 Census. So America is not racist. Those recent immigrants have more intact families, strive, and are rewarded for their efforts.
Left wing bastardy promoters and lazy, Roman Orgy lifestyle enablers have to take responsibility for the devastation. The family toxic environment is done on purpose to increase government services jobs for left wing nurses and others of their ilk.
I had a friend who was a military officer. There came a point when the military was temporarily overstaffed, so they did the equivalent of a RIF: they offered my friend and a bunch of other officers a buyout. My friend then moved into his parents’ basement and went to grad school. He had buyout money and considerable personal savings (a single man with a good salary who had been living in military quarters for years), but no income. Under the rules then in force, he qualified for food stamps, which he got.
My mother used to have a friend who was bored being an empty nester, especially because her engineer husband did a lot of traveling. Every year she spent the winter months working for IRS. Every spring she was laid off and spent the next six months drawing unemployment.
Both of these people were white and thoroughly middle class. Neither of them needed the government aid; both took it simply because it was available. People do this. Not black people, not lower-class people, not even bad people. Just people.
And, when it’s all gone, the people who used it based on need, not greed are the ones who will really suffer. Sitting back and taking it because you learn how to bilk the system isn’t right-those people don’t care and they are everywhere.
I like to say that if you don’t like the laws or criteria of a program, then find a way to get them changed. Otherwise, don’t get angry at those who use what is available.
Chicago’s public housing is a great example. Minority Landlords get breaks and such if they rent to section 8. Never mind that renters trash where they live or drive the Escalades. It’s there and until it is drained dry, those renters will abuse the system- the landlords get subsidies, renters rent free. When is the last time anyone got something for free that was appreciated or taken care of, I ask you.
It is the same for that mom and her priorities and responsibilities. Never had to pay, doesn’t want to and it’s all about how much more she can get.
There is no poverty in the US. Our poor are fat. You cannot be fat if truly poor.
Poverty is a lifestyle choice community, like having to choose between golf course or marina condo living. Housing is not even cheap in these ghettos. What you have are intolerable people herded into these lifestyle communities. There, they live the full time Roman Orgy lifestyle, unmolested by the police. If they try that in another area, the neighbors would burn them out.
Mmm, the classism in this post. God forbid the poor have quality of life too. Yes, that particular person is being ridiculous over $1 or whatever, but somehow that means everyone on welfare should have everything they buy be government approved as For the Poor (TM) (costing the taxpayer more, I might add).
Not everyone who needs government assistance was always poor. Why should someone have to live their life as you see fit? You don’t have to live your life as they see fit. Why don’t you criticise politicians’ lifestyles more? I guarantee you they cost the taxpayer more than the poor people do, especially if you include the costs of war (come on, going to war is something only the politicians can do), pollution (loss of health to the taxpayer) etc.
Why should someone have to live their life as you see fit?
Why the [redacted] should I have to pay for them to live their life as they see fit?
If she can still afford the plan for her iPhone, she does not need a script for Motrin. Period.
This woman was taking benefits away from people who are truly in need. I don’t give a [redacted] what her expected standard of living is/was. Nor do I give a [redacted] about her wounded pride, or your ideas of classism.
Dude. You [redacted] me?
My muse will not be denied!
(I still *heart* you, WC.)
Not my fault your government can’t afford to give decent healthcare to its people. You do realise I responded directly about the woman in question? I don’t care about her $1 or her iphone; I care that somehow everyone feels that her entitlement complex gives them carte blanche to comment on how the poor should only get the bare minimum they need to live and be subjected to undue scrutiny over everything they purchase. Why does one individual’s bad behaviour bring out the worst in everyone else?
“i want MORE govt intrusion in peoples lives if they are getting public support.” – more expensive for the taxpayer, and you probably don’t know what stuff is impossible to get already if you’re on government assistance. I hear the most budget menstrual pads you can get are horrific to use, but of course more expensive ones would come up as a ‘luxury’ item under govt scrutiny.
“Anything else is really just you being a societal leech.” Birth control is really just you being a societal leech. So is having kids and then losing your job and having to go on govt assistance.
If people are abusing the system that means the system isn’t working very well, yes. Works pretty well over here without unduly harsh restrictions on what you can get on government assistance though. In fact I was completely able to play computer games on my own laptop! while being on unemployment over here. Doesn’t mean I was too lazy to get a job though, as I totally have one right now. I’d like to see some of you classists forced to sell your possessions when you lose your jobs (lol won’t happen, you have rich, supportive friends and family). I’m sure you’d love that as you totally agree with that policy.
Well obviously you haven’t learned helplessness yet. What you should have done was to conjure and channel the Disney character Eor, saying “I guess I’ll give you the Motrin. It’s for the children. You’d just go to another ED, anyway.” That way the circle of learned helplessness would be complete. The mother learns her dependance is anything she wants any way she wants it, and the kid learns that dependance is transferrable. And you learn their “insurance” pays in IOU’s. A truly teachable moment.
Back a couple of ice ages ago, when I was young, I cut my foot on a rock. My dad whacked me on the head for cutting my foot, my brother for letting me, and tied a dirty sock around my foot. No sense wasting a clean sock, my dad would say. Asking to go to the ED (in those days ER) would get you vaporized, let alone ice cream.
Well, I’d give more of my Yoda-like insight, but, like you I had a similar “lapse”. Now I have to fill out 112 more anonymous Press Gainey surveys as our PG’s are down. Yup. Another 112 surveys that say I’m awesome…
nurse k, been there done that…..Aldi’s and the dollar store rock.
Where I live, any prescription for a child under eighteen is “free”. I regularly have parents who tell me that they haven’t been giving their child Motrin or Tylenol because they “ran out” of the prescription. I tell them that it is OTC and they tell me that they can’t afford it. (Or that it has all been recalled) And I respond that it is under $3 at WalMart for generic (which has not been recalled). Doesn’t matter… OR, they say they’ve been giving the meds, but when they leave, they want a Rx because “well, we just ran out”. My solution is to write an Rx for either one to two days worth (enough that they can follow up with their PCP). Most people begging for “free” drugs aren’t observant enough to see how many mLs I’ve written for them, but I can imagine quite a few hissy fits at the local pharmacy when they see the tiny bottle.
I am quite sure that your Medicaid is reduced if you have significant assets, like a Cadillac. I’m not sure if this applies to food stamps (federal or state) or general welfare checks. The Cadillac-person should be reported to the gov’t anonymously.
Nope, if you have significant assets you don’t qualify at all. Some things are exempted like the home you live in (although most folks on assistance who own homes are elderly who paid off the mortgage years ago), 1 car up to a certain value, and a couple of thousand in the bank if you can manage it.
You are allowed to own a car, but with in reason. A 1996 Cadillac may be in mint condition, but has no bluebook value. A 2008 caddie does, and would be considered an asset
Way back before I went to college, I was working at a minimum wage job with a wife and a child. She did sign us up for food stamps – for a whopping 1 month. I made more money in food stamps that I made in 2 weeks of working. I ate better than I had in a long time. And felt guilty with every bite.
Here in the south we have families who are experts in social welfare. It is a way of life for them. They have generations doing it. They live a better life than I do.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying don’t have a life. I’m not saying don’t live in a house.. don’t drive a car. I am saying we need to curb some of the abuse however. Make them take and pass drug screening – randomized. I have to do that as part of my employment. If my nurse manager or anyone else were to feel I was using or diverting medications, I would either have to take a drug test or lose my job. Hell, it’s State law that they have to do so. However, if you are on welfare you can do whatever drugs you can get your hands on.. if you want to do that.
A little personal experience here as well. I stopped to get something to drink before coming on shift in the ED. At the gas station, this young child got a single 5 cent piece of bubble gum and paid for it with a $5.00 food stamp. He got the change, took it out to the car where he was given another food stamp and the process repeated itself. My jaw was on the floor when his mother finally came in with the change and purchased cigarettes and beer with the change. I looked at the clerk, who explained there was nothing he could do about it. He would lose his job if he said anything, as they made money selling these sort of things.
The very next day I emailed my state legislators and suggested a food stamp credit card. You don’t get change, it acts like a debit card. You get X amount of money on the card, and it’s used like a debit card, with whatever change remaining on the card for the next use.
I don’t deny there are truly needy folks out there. Let’s help them. But let’s not let them get away with abusing the system.
These same folks tend to use the ED like a clinic. There are no co pays and they don’t pay any out of pocket for their medications. How many times have they brought in their children because they “felt hot” or “they have a fever”. When you ask how high it went, they never took it, “they just felt hot”. Normal in the ER. Or if they do have a fever, it was untreated because they didn’t have a prescription for Tylenol/Motrin. I don’t have problems with the truly needy. How many times have I paid for antibiotics for those who couldn’t afford it.. unbeknownst to the patient that this had been done. My coworkers have done it as well. Arranged for food to be dropped off at their door when they get home. The list goes on and on. But when they come in with more gold and diamonds than my wife has, a better phone and car than I have, eating the fast food they just purchased, and then DEMAND that I give them rx for Tylenol/Motrin or whatever so they don’t have to pay for it? Yeah, it ruins my day too.
I’m confused. I get that this mom is an ass. However, she didn’t write the Medicaid rules. Under the rules, she has been determined to be very poor (regardless of what you are observing). The rules say that anyone who is found eligible for these benefits may have free Motrin if an MD feels it is medically indicated. (If you say you’ve never written a just-in-case Rx for a “paying customer” I won’t believe you.) The rules don’t say “free Motrin unless the doctor doesn’t like the patient” they simply say free Motrin with Rx. Mom is aware of these rules–don’t we advise everyone to be aware of what their plan covers and excludes? She is playing by the rules, you aren’t. If you have some evidence she’s committing welfare fraud, by all means call the hotline but in the mean time her child is entitled to care.
Saw the same thing all the time when I worked in homeless clinics. I swear 90% of the patients I saw just wanted free over the counter meds (naproxen mainly or sometimes antihistamines). Given they were homeless, but the same patients went through a half a pack of cigarettes a day. I suppose it was nice we kept the said patients out of Dr. Whitecoat’s ER, but it definitely wasn’t for me.
It’s funny what people will do for “free” things. Spend a whole morning waiting to be seen in a clinic to save 2 bucks.
With the insurance we have for my son, if we pay for ANYTHING out of pocket, we are expected to continue paying for that item out of pocket even if the dosage or use changes. We also have to use one pharmacy and one pharmacy only for all our rx needs. Several of his daily regimen items are available OTC, but once I pay out of pocket for that item I cannot later use a prescription for the item.
Example: my son has a predisone rx for anti-rejection. When he has an asthma episode also requiring prednisone, if I were to pay out of pocket for the rx for the asthma incident, then I would have to pay out of pocket for the daily maintenance prednisone.
Not that I think for a minute that this is what the woman you described was going through — clearly if you can afford ice cream for a group of children, you can afford a dollar-store med item — but some of the rules for various insurance companies are frustrating.
That is absolute madness. I cannot believe that an “insurance” company would do that. Stupid money grubbers. Having some dumb clause where if you pay for something once, you can always afford the med.
Best of luck and health for your son.
Entitled, that’s a mighty heavy word these days. It sorta negates personal responsibility.
Prescription politics aside, let’s move on to the poor parenting going on here.
If that were MY kid, she wouldn’t get any pain meds. I don’t know what is wrong with people that they can’t take a little pain. This woman is teaching this kid to anesthetize the trivial.
Unless my kids demonstrated their pain was truly severe, they didn’t get OTC painkillers. The sore foot will teach the kid to wear shoes next time.
the bigger parenting issue here is that her kids are being taught that it is acceptable to behave this way. do you foresee them down the line putting forth the effort to get out of the socioeconomic situation that qualifies them for medicaid? not saying it’s easy to do but if they don’t even try it definitely won’t happen.
Ugh….I am a social worker in NYS. If you are LUCKY enough to live in public housing and have a subsidize rent you can live in a safe house on public assistance. The wait for section 8, in my city, is 8 years. A single person can get $250 for rent from tanf… you may find a ROOM for that amount. You may get Heap to pay for heat. You will get $200 for food stamps on a electonic benefit card (harder to divert). You will get $60-75 cash to pay for your expenses a month. That includes: toiletries, Co-pays for medicaid meds ($1-$3, free for psych meds and children?), telephone (even a low income basic reduced is $12-but you can get a free cell phone with 200 minutes/month). clothes..broadcast cable… After paying for your electric, it is often very difficult to pay for anything else. AND!!!! in NYS Tanf (temp aid to needy families) is not Free! So after your child is 6 months or older. You have to go to work. For your $60-75 a month, you are required to go to the “adult learning center” where you can attend work training or study for your GED. You can then be assigned to be an “adult workfair volunteer” where you are required to work 15-35 hours a week. I have five workfair volunteers, and they work 25 hours a week….and get about $65 A MONTH.
My rambling point, is that it is very difficult to exist on public assitance. The only thing people have ever said was that the food stamps were very generous when they had the full amount (which is when you have $0 income)
People who do well on public assitance are getting assitance from somewhere else…. family, friends, lovers, illicit work (under the table, drug dealer, sex worker). As a social worker….do me a favor and just write a Rx. Seriously, you are talking about how someone is entitled to an ice cream cone???? seriously?
I don’t think WC is talking about the people you may deal with on a daily basis. How many of those you are in contact with have Iphones and can afford to supply their kids with vending machine food? WC is talking about the abuse of the system; should those who can afford an Iphone, or for that matter expensive amenities be on Medicaid an take advantage of a gov’t system? I have no doubt there are those who are in dire need of some form of assistance, but where do we draw the line..? As WhiteCoat said, “What’s fair?”
I actually face the same fustrations everyday. I work at a drop-in center for those with mental illness, substance abuse issues, or homelessness. We serve a free meal, a very small pantry, have a thrift store that complement our programs. We buy the food for our area food bank (regional distribution center of USDA food and corporate donations) for 14 cents a pound. We struggle to get enough supplies to serve lunch and dinner.
Our clients steal food and clothing all of the time.
Despite keeping most of it locked up. It makes us fustrated and mad.
And then we take a moment and realize that alot of the people who steal…have nothing
You idiot, the clothes they steal end up at the local pawnshop where they get money to buy meth. Do not feel sorry for these people; they slough off all adult human responsibility because they like being ripped to the absolute tits, and sad-sack idiots like you get your rocks off crying sad tears about how hard they’ve got it.
oh yeah…and then there is the assumption that there is a dollar store within walking distance to someone’s house. Someone may need to pay $3 in bus fair, to get to a dollar store.
All of the dollar stores around me are in the suburbs, in plazas, with easy access by CAR.
Thank you!
Welfare fraud is commonplace, but most restrictions would either be (a) unenforceable or (b) so stringent they denied many legitimate claims.
I say start with the big rocks first. The federal government could clean up billions by beefing up (1) audits of taxpayers with AGIs over $2m and (2) inspector general offices at the agencies with the largest budgets. You wouldn’t BELIEVE the stuff DoD contractors do; imagine if you could bill your entire ED based on nothing but a handful of phone calls — no CPT/ICD, no submission of records, just some phone calls saying “yeah, we did 238 CT Scans and six open heart surgeons.”
By giving away free stuff to people we are taking away their ability to be successful and restricting their freedom by making them dependendent.
How dare the public aid system oppress people like that. They should all starve, but at least they’ll starve free.
FYI: Freedom is probably an after-thought when you can’t provide food, water, shelter, and/or medicine for yourself and your children. Also, accepting a helping hand doesn’t automatically cause dependence. How can you pick yourself up by the bootstraps when you don’t have boots?
Be as charitable as you want in your personal life. I try to be. But don’t make yourself feel good by taking from others via government to be generous
Read “Defying Hitler’. In Hitler’s rise to power, Sebastian Haffner laments that those who were suddenly given everything and worked for the state,had everything. But after being given back their “independence” forgot a few things, and became a bitter people.
They forgot how to hope, to dream and how to really live.
It was much the same for the East Germans when the wall came down. I saw it first hand on both ends and it was not pretty. They resented the West Germans and many still do.
To whitecoat and all concurring posters:
Can you answer these questions for me since me and my family are on Medicaid? I’m being very serious here.
My toddler has small diamond earrings ($120). They were a gift from her paternal grandmother and a family tradition. Should I take them out before I take her to the ER? Should I take them out all together because we’re poor and she just doesn’t deserve her gift?
My toddler has lots of nice new designer dresses. She is the first grandbaby on both sides and both grandmas went crazy. Should I buy her some cheap walmart clothes to take her to the ER in? Does my daughter not deserve these gifts either? Should we donate them to rich people so that social norms can be observed?
I have a cell phone. It’s my parents old one that I got for free when they updated to a new model. I pay $10 a month for it. Should I leave it at home when I go to the ER? Should I give it up all together so you can feel like I fit your ‘poor person’ schema?
My boyfriend (long time partner 5+ years and father to said toddler- just to clear up any assumptions) has a cell phone that was a gift from his parents and they pay for his monthly rate too. His phone is nice looking and free. Should he leave that at home if he goes to the ER? Should he give it up and just pay for a land line because he is poor?
We drive a 1997 POS toyota kept alive by a prayer. Should we take the bus to the ER? Should we sell the car (even though our work and school are way across town and a 45 minute drive will now take 2 hours by bus) so we look more humble and desperate?
These may seem like rather rude questions, but I don’t want to be judged if I got to the ER and need emergency treatment for something. It makes me nervous to think that people who could hold my life their hands think badly of me and my family … all because of gifts we have received from our large support system (which, unfortunately, isn’t large enough to pay about a thousand of dollars a month for independent health insurance- we’d get health insurance thru work but it isn’t offered and we haven’t been able to find new jobs in this economy).
If you would come into our home you would see a TV we got for free from my parents. A digital camera that was my Christmas present last year. An Xbox that my boyfriend’s friends and I (about 20 people all together) chipped in to buy for him for his golden birthday. Should we sell these things and alienate our friends and family by rejecting their generosity?
Does the government have a right to come into my home inspect/confiscate my things or revoke my aid because of assistance of family and friends? Do I have to get tested for drugs too? (Better hope I didn’t have a poppy seed bagel before the test! (http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/poppyseed.asp) Even though upper and middle classes abuse more drugs (http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/trends.html)? If you agree that the government should be able to do this to me; when did my right to privacy become conditional? Am I inferior to you because I need help?
I can’t describe how incredibly sad your post and all these comments have made me. I feel trapped in my current situation and my only hope is that the degree I’m working toward will help me get a better job. Thanks for kicking me when I’m down and making me feel like a dog. Not that this post will make you feel compassion for me or anything. I expect some bootstraps comments to follow this.
My toddler has small diamond earrings ($120). They were a gift from her paternal grandmother and a family tradition. Should I take them out before I take her to the ER? Should I take them out all together because we’re poor and she just doesn’t deserve her gift?
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We are talking about the patients who come in with 8 pieces of non-costume jewlery, gold teeth with diamonds, designer clothes, the absolute latest cell phone with full data package, spinners on their late-model high-end car, carrying bags of food from McDonald’s, buying junk from the vending machine, who then state that they don’t have $4 for their prescription. And they’ve been in 14 times in the last year to the ER and known of them were for anything remotely emergent.
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Does the government have a right to come into my home inspect/confiscate my things or revoke my aid because of assistance of family and friends? Do I have to get tested for drugs too? I need help?
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That’s debateable. Does your employer have a right to test you for drugs? Usually they do. Why shouldn’t the entity paying you have the same rights?
you seem to have a family that gives a lot of gifts…..seems they would also be willing to pay for truly emergency care????
We are talking about the patients who come in with 8 pieces of non-costume jewlery, gold teeth with diamonds, designer clothes, the absolute latest cell phone with full data package, spinners on their late-model high-end car, carrying bags of food from McDonald’s, buying junk from the vending machine, who then state that they don’t have $4 for their prescription. And they’ve been in 14 times in the last year to the ER and known of them were for anything remotely emergent.
Or really? Well how much does all that jewelery cost? Do you know? Do you know where they got it? Do you know if its real? Have you had it checked?
I haven’t seen ANYONE at the social services office with gold teeth, but please, provide pictures of the next person on medicaid that you see with gold teeth (with diamonds?!- how can you tell diamond from crystal?). Besides, what says that they haven’t fallen on hard times now when things were good before? Should they go the the dentist and have their fillings removed?
I also have designer clothes. You wouldn’t believe what you can find at Good Will or consignment shops for cheap.
My boyfriends cell phone is a new model, and its still free. And how do you know what they get in their data package? Do you ask?
If you have a high end car, chances are you won’t have medicaid. They usually count that as a resource. Maybe they built it themselves. My father-in-law has a mustang he restored from junk and he isn’t rich by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe they borrowed the car to get to the ER, maybe they bought it before they lost their jobs, lots of people are out of jobs these days. Maybe you should ask the next time you see this as well. Instead of assuming.
You’re making a lot of assumptions here and presenting what seems like an absurd and extreme case that I have never seen in all my 6 years of being dirt poor. In fact, I think I can call straw man on you. Shame shame.
Also…
I don’t think that employers have the right to test you for drugs either. I think that it assumes someone is guilty and has to prove themselves innocent. But that is neither here nor there because there is a difference between the private and public sectors. Specifically something called the bill of rights. The ACLU fights drug testing of welfare recipients and Michigan courts have already ruled it unconstitutional. Of course its also expensive as crap. On electronics manufacturer found that to catch one drug user it cost them $20,000. And you know the people you’re going to catch? Marijuana users. Big threat. But hey! Your tax dollars at work! You’re all for increasing the budget right? (here’s the source on all that: http://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform/drug-testing-public-assistance-recipients-condition-eligibility ) <– Please read this, it has statistics on how many people on welfare are actually on drugs and lots of other things.
Also, lots of people get money from the government in the forms of tax breaks and subsidies. Should the government get to inspect you and drug test you every time you get your refund? How about all the CEOs that abuse corporate welfare even though they don't pay income tax? ( http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/12/national/main4342535.shtml )
To Matthew:
My family cannot afford to give me over $1000 dollars a month for insurance (this is half my dad's monthly check!) , and neither can my boyfriend's (his mom lost her job and they are living off just his dads income). I just got out of the ICU. The woman who did the billing said that the ICU room by itself was $8000 dollars for ONE day. Neither of our families has that kind of money sitting around. They can afford to give us $100 presents occasionally or (like my boyfriend) add us to their phone plan for $15 dollars a month. There's a huge difference in expense here and true emergency care is INSANE.
“My family cannot afford to give me over $1000 dollars a month for insurance…”
If your family can afford to give diamond earrings to a baby, then they can damn well afford to pay for doctor visits.
Dingo Baby: There’s a lot more to health care than doctors visits. Emergency room care, hospitalizations, medications, etc etc. Yeah, my parents could pay for some doctors visits, but they couldn’t have paid for my last hospitalization. Thats why I need this health care. A one time gift of $120 dollars (the cost of the earrings) is a lot different than the thousands of dollars health care for our family would cost. If you can ignore all my other points and have to latch on to that… wow.
Sigh,
Nobody in an ER will treat you any differently because you are on medicaid. You are missing the point. The woman mentioned had her priorities all effed up.
And by you trying to defend what your family gives you says a lot. It seems as if you are willing to take whatever is given you. You have to admit, that stereotyping will ensue in the situation you describe.
In all of your posts, you say nothing about what you have done to help the situation. Does it even cross your mind how much the designer clothes for a toddler cost with Grandma’s loot?
I bet that money would go a long way to pay for something sensible. Does that mean your child should dress in rags? Nope, but show me a two or three year old who says they’ve got to get those Gymboree pants or that Ralph Lauren sweater and I’ll personally pay for it!
Do you understand what some of the posters are saying?
Whether you like it or not, what people see *is* what they interpret and personally, I have a problem with those people coming to the ER on medicaid with that $80/mo smart phone, designer clothes, and jewelry and “gimme” attitude.
If the priorities are right, they’d sell the damn jewelry to pay for what was necessary, give up all the manicures, cigarettes phones and anything else not deemed a necessity. Instead, we see that they have a sense of entitlement and zero shame. There is nothing nice about that.
Sigh: Try a little morality. For example, get married before having a child.
When I was really, really poor, like no food, no money for basics poor, I just told my family members to buy me gift cards to the grocery store, and not to buy anything super-duper expensive for my son because I would just sell it. And I did. Everything you need for a one or two-year-old is at a garage sale. Puzzles for 25 cents, Fisher-Price whatever for a couple bucks…
When they bought Tommy Hilfiger jeans, baby Nikes and Polo shirts, I sold all that, WITH TAGS, on eBay and bought way more clothes or whatever else with the money. Sure, it pissed them off, but whatever. Not poor anymore
Defend USA and Nurse K <–hey btw I loved your blog):
Yes I am willing to take gifts. I am desperate. I am living right on the edge and w/o my family support I don't know where I'd be. Someplace very bad. A disaster could easily topple my family. I haven't had to pay for baby clothes yet and it has been wonderful. They have also gotten me lots of practical things from my family like a crib and a stroller. They aren't top of the line but they work.
I DO sell my baby clothes to consignment stores after I'm done using them. I sell most of them anyway before even using them because they give me too many. I've made about $500 so far which has gone to my rent and utilities and school bills. I am not materialistic. The only things I personally splurge on are books from Goodwill or the clearance sections in used bookstores. Sometimes I sell my books later if I need to pay for emergency things. (I have a whole set of first edition Harry Potter Hardcovers (all from Goodwill for $2 a piece) that I know I can get a good price on at half price books- I'm just saving them for an emergency.) As soon as I found out I was pregnant I sold all my video games except for a few favorites and I've sold almost all my CDs and movies and also a few books (these are hard to part with for me). I've sold my clothes and jewelery. These things have paid for my rent and school and child related expenses. I have minimal student loans so far because of this. I participate in psychology experiments and I'm now considering taking part in a medication study and selling my blood.
I eat cheap and buy bulk. I work as a part time nanny. I plan and plan and plan. But childcare is expensive (it runs me about $293 a week). School is expensive and I still can't afford health care. My last hospitalization would have run me about $30,000. If I sold everything I had right now and drained all my saving and loans and bank accounts I'd be lucky to get a third of that.
Please understand. I make sacrifices. I sell many of my nice things. I do keep some of my gifts. Not because I deserve them or because I'm a gimme person, but because selling the six designer dresses I keep because I consider the profit from them negligible in comparison from what I've already sacrificed (I'd get about $50 if my consignment shop holds consistent). I keep the earrings because they are a tie to a culture in the south pacific that is very far away. They comfort me.
As a parting note:
I propose that the stereotyping isn't my fault. I propose that stereotyping is bad. That you (general you) should look critically at a person and not assume based on your own prejudices. I propose that people should be better than that.
BTW Clause: hehehe. I like trolls.
Thank you for this message.
I think that this and several other people who have posted about their real plights in struggling to pay for medical bills help to put things into perspective for many of us providing the care.
And I also think that if you mention these types of things to your medical providers, in general they will bend over backwards to help you.
If only there was some way to reliably weed out the abusers – both to keep money in the system and to keep the people who really need the services from being viewed in the same light as those who abuse the system.
OK I don’t have an I-phone because I think it is crazy to spend that much a month for. I have son that has an IQ of 69 and 24 years old we are finally recieving some assistance for him he is getting low income house which I had to sign that I will pay the rent for this. So he is learning some independence he was recieving some food stamps $159/mth but just recently got cut down to $40 because he has a part-time job at Walmart (gotten through the Center for Indepedent Living) and got a paycheck for $50 and they cut his food stamps down to $40 a month. How can he learn to be more indepdent when I still have to support him??? I am all against fraud I see it every day were we live people living in trailers on welfare but have pools and motorcycles and nice new cars. Going on vacations to Florida and Disney world while I work to support my kids and can’t take time off work to go on vaction. Something does need to change here. I am praying that this health care reform bill helps with medical we cna’t get medical insurance for my 24 yr old because they say he has the ability to make $900 and month and that should be enough to support himself on. IN WHAT WORLD??
This is another problem with the system…if you try to work and at least be somewhat self-sufficient, you get punished. A lot of people find that losing their assistance by getting jobs, paying for child care, they are struggling more than if they weren’t working at all. So why should they work? And why shouldn’t they have another kid? They are just going to get a bigger check. The whole system needs to be stripped apart and totally overhauled. Give help to the people who need it, when they need it, but don’t allow it to become a lifestyle.
My pediatrician always offered us a sample size bottle of liquid Tylenol or Motrin when we took the girl in for vaxing, maybe two doses’ worth. If you could get a stash of these to hand out, the problem would cease to exist.
The debate that is going on in this comment section is the same debate that we had in the emergency department that night.
The issue isn’t whether society should help less fortunate people. Of course it should.
The issue is what should be done about patients who abuse the system designed to help the less fortunate. Instead of using the public welfare system as a means to “stay afloat” during down times or job loss (some of the nurses I work with were once on Medicaid), many people have made the public welfare system a way of life.
Just like the drug seekers who come to the emergency department and who give a bad reputation to patients in legitimate pain, those who abuse the public welfare system often create a bad impression about the patients who are in legitimate need.
It bothers me that so many people think that it is OK to just let abusers continue abusing the system. This is no small matter. As health care dollars shrink, those who abuse the system will compete for the limited care available to those truly in need. I don’t think it is OK to allow abusers to bilk our health care system any more than I think it is OK for people to cheat “a little” on their taxes or people to go into others homes and steal “just a few things.” Are there other larger fish to fry? Sure. Bank bailouts. TARP. Foreign aid. Wars sucking our country’s finances dry. I could go on and on, but this blog is about health care.
Few people really appreciate how the significant abuse of the health care system demoralizes medical providers who really want to help people. Nor do they appreciate how that demoralization contributes to an overall decline in the system. You want a look into the doctors lounge when you read this blog? You got it. Very few doctors whom I have encountered are truly “happy” with the system. Abuse of the system and lawsuits are two issues that seem to consistently be on the short list of reasons why.
If patients in legitimate need of subsidized medical care are upset about how they are treated or perceived by medical providers, think about things from the medical provider’s view. How would you feel if many of the kids in your neighborhood lied to you and stole things from your house every time they came over? How would you feel if more kids moved into town and stole more stuff? Then maybe this mentality begins rubbing off on your kids. Your kids begin lying and stealing. How would you feel about neighborhood kids in general? Would it have your spirits down when dealing with your own kids?
Patients who are truly in need should thank the many patients abusing the system who have created the atmosphere in which we now work.
I really worry about what kind of medical care is going to be left for our children in the future.
Dr. WhiteCoat,
You have a point here. All these little robberies are a problem, so are the bigger robberies. I worry about those too. Both need to be addressed.
There are 2 ways to address problems in a society:
1-Top-down approach and
2-Grassroots approach.
1-Top-down approach. This one isn’t coming, and won’t come, for example look at how the “Public Option” and “Single Payer” were defeated in Congress or even worse, they never made it to the Round Table discussions. But if any change does come it’ll be in the Trickle Down variety; Give money to the powerfull so that something trickles down to the poor and needy. Create a “cash for clunkers’ so that the automotive industry will have their holyday. And if any change does come directly to the people, it will be incremental or the quick fix approach (see below).
2-Grassroots. This requires a lot of muscle, I mean Social Movements muscle. But it’s very hard to get traction if we’re discussing the petty little things especially if they tend to divide us. To bring muscle so that we have powerful, massive and influential Social Movements we need to focus on big issues, legislation that affect us all, that unite us all. Now, this can come in two main flavors: A-Incremental approach or gradual change, which involves just changing a little thing now, and in another 4 years we’ll lobby to change another little thing there. Or B-Sudden change, just like the straw that broke the camel’s back. This is more like the outburst kind of movement rarely seen these days, but if things get tighter and tighter eventually there’ll find their scape valve. If we don’t act now in an organized way, our children will eventually have to face this kind of outburst.
I know very little of what I said here will receive any attention, but I’ll leave them with you if you want to pick them up and give them the emphasis they deserve. I don’t include any links since otherwise I’d need to cite the whole humankind history.
“It bothers me that so many people think that it is OK to just let abusers continue abusing the system.”
This attitude is a priveledged white position that just goes to show you’re a racist jerk. Get some better perspective you rich moron.
There should be no argument that someone saying they can’t afford Motrin for their kid at the whopping full cost of $1 should not have a top-of-the-line cell phone with a $100/month plan. What else is that kid not getting because mom puts her kid’s needs second?
Racist? The patient and her kids were white, [redacted, with remainder of sentence reinserted in its place] you person whose name calling and false claims of racism appear as if they come from someone whose head is so full of detritus that said detritus is now dripping steadily from his auditory canals.
Now if you’ll excuse me, my dog is late for his yoga lessons and I have to pick up my Lambo in the shop (crappy Italian imports). Hate having to drive around the Hummer – it leaves soot all the other cars in my garage.
Stereotypes, dearheart, don’t arrive into a vacuum. They are often exaggerated characteristics of people they typically represent.
And yeah, if I’m paying you to exist, I get to regulate your existence. If you don’t like it, pay your own way. Sell some of those expensive, impractical clothes—once upon a child comes to mind—dress the baby in practical stuff, and PAY YOUR OWN WAY!
WC: Excuse me. You will need to redact your ad hominem remark, namely, the word, dolt. Please, address yourself to just the issues. Thank you.
I still think you’re racist, WC, because you didn’t make the patient sound white enough in the story. People may have possibly assumed that they weren’t white as a result. Next time say that the mom is going to buy the children “organic, soy-milk ice cream” then go to The Gap for a khaki cargo-shorts run to avoid being accused of racism.
SC –
You are correct. I changed it. Thanks.
Oh, and in my defense, I will state that he started it.
WC: Very fair, proper, and civilized. I was just teasing you. I believe in open debate, personal insults, and even in non-imminent death threats. The US Supreme Court has taken just that position in policy debates. Let ‘er rip, they said. Example, threatening to kill a Supreme Court Justice or saying one needs to die for his stance on abortion, to save babies, allowed. Saying to someone within the room, holding a weapon, proceed with your assassination attempt… not allowed, and a crime on its own.
Ad hominems are not all bad, sometimes they serve to summarize the position of an opponent. For example, I call someone a paranoid schizophrenic who refuses to take medication, people understand, they need to verify his claims independently. If I call someone a genius, in a sincere tone, people should also understand. They need to verify his claims independently. If you are going to ban negative ad hominems, I suggest you ban positive ones too.
In some cases, the ad hominem attack is equivalent to knocking over your king in chess, a sign of surrender to a hopeless position. Left wing people attack the person often. Why? Because the facts abandoned the Left about 100 years ago. So it is a sign of rhetorical victory by the target.
I was on medicaid for 6 months. I graduated from grad school, my mom died, I couldn’t find a job, I had student health insurance with the ability to buy Cobra coverage. I had to decline temp service (and other employment without health benefits) so I can be on medicaid to buy my meds.
The system can be so fustrating. I would have loved the opportunity to buy health insurance (at an employers rate) so I can work without benefits….
I work for health insurance now. I am only part-time, and my employer pays only half of my health insurance…
It’s not so much the “I’m too poor to buy medicine for my child but rich enough to have an iPhone” that is the problem (from my perspective). It is more the expectation that something is free and therefore must be obtained. The “I waited in the ER for three hours for this cold and I deserve my free meds”. The parents of patients who have a required co-pay do not ask for prescriptions for OTC meds. Why should they? They would pay the same or more in co-pays. I get the same bitter taste in my mouth when a frequent flier in the ER starts demanding popsicles and juice and a patient advocate for a hot meal for themselves and their other children, not just the kiddo who checked in. I’m the first to start looking for free samples or the $4 list for those who have NO insurance. The entitlement is what bothers me.
It would be interesting to find out which is more expensive in the long run: purchasing a generic medication OTC or paying taxes, etc to pay for the cost of the Rx, PharmD’s salary to fill it, MD’s salary to write the Rx, etc.
This is why aid should be on a community level not federal. Neighbors can general be counted on to know who is needy versus who is lazy. Local programs could investigate to determine the true level of need.
And having help provided from neighbors or local churches could increase feelings of gratitude and result in less entitlement.
My story is pretty complicated but regardless, I’ll try to boil it way down. I recently lost my six figure job (about nine months ago). I worked my ass off all of my life. I have paid through the nose in taxes. Again, there is more too it, but here is where I am – at least for right now. I have thrown in the towel. I clearly am a bit burnt out, having worked so many long hours over the past 25 years, but I still could certainly go back to the corp. rat race. But, why the hell should I? Tell me why? I have no debt, kids are grown and through college. I can try to get another six figure salary and continue to pay $40,000 in combined taxes. Or I can take unemployment. I can get a discount on my health insurance due to my low income. I can get 25% discount on my heating bills due to my low income. I will work part-time and take on a few project contracts while paying zero in tax.
If you can’t beat um – then join um. I have paid into “the system” and supported all of these other people with my hard work. It’s now time for me to get paid back for that. I didn’t make the rules. I didn’t create this broken system. I’m just playing by the rules that have been layed out for me.
Pehaps I have been the fool all along. Perhaps I have been the idiot for working so much and so hard while others laughed at me for doing it. What a way to ruin what at one point was the best place in the world to live.
Only humans are the ones who believe they need to take more than they need. Only humans buy more cars that they can drive, more chairs than they can sit on, more toilets that they can poop on. Look at other creatures in nature. They only take what they need. Have you seen a bird during spring time leave with the car you left parked in the driveway? No, the bird only took a bit of space in the tree to build its nest and a few straws to build its nest, a few worms to feed on, and when time came to feed its young, it took more worms and a few drinks of the same water you left several weeks before mixed with coolant. Yeah, that right. Only humans believe they are Kings. Please read Daniel Quinn’s ISHMAEL to get an idea why taking more than your share is pointless. Look at it this way: When you die, how much of what you ‘made’ are you going to bring along?
You could be my husband, and yes, it’s frustrating. We have been unemployed three times in four years. We are starting from the very bottom, again. I only have one going to college so far. But we have no savings or retirement left and I have never taken your attitude. We have kept our house, our family together. Is it hard? You bet. But good God, man. You better start looking for the gems and let go of the resentment. It takes too much energy to hold onto.
Get involved then, with taking the Country back. You will feel alot better. I am attending 8/28. Look it up, it’s in DC. I promise you will see a whole different world.
You have never had a fox attack a hen house. Or, in a couple of events I have had, a couple of pit bulls attacked and killed a half dozen sheep, including a 250 pound ram. The dogs weren’t hungry and didn’t eat them, they just killed or maimed them.
Is this the exception or the rule?
Are we to believe that pit bulls or foxes are overcrowding the planet?
Are we to believe that pit bulls/foxes are killing each other with depleted uranium munitions?
If we’re participating in medical field-related blog, there has to be something about science, something about objectivity, about means, and stardard deviations, about outlyers, about probability, about normal values, about variables with a central tendency (mean, median) that summarizes the general trend in a population.
Does an outlyer negate the mean?
It is my understanding that when you say “only” then it only takes an exception to disprove the hypothesis. If you had said that mostly humans will take more than they need, I would agree.
Thanks for the correction, “mostly” would be more appropriate.
Now, the case about the assassin pit bull I think should be documented. All cases that qualify as exceptions to the rule should be thoroughly documented.
We do have police reports, where the sheriff saw the bloody dogs. Unfortunately, we were not able to shoot them (the dogs, not the sheriff) in the act, they were down the street trying to get to the neighbor’s geese. So I guess you could say it was circumstantial evidence. Neighbor hears the commotion and calls us and sheriff. We see bloody and dying sheep. 500 feet away are bloody dogs trying to attack goose pen.
The following article could be illuminating http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/dreznik/Shariati.pdf
If they can afford that stuff then they HAVE to be gaming the system. I have known people with mdcd and they barely just made ends meet.
You have to be seriously into poverty level to even qualify for mdcd. There are many people who are poor, work full time and would sincerely be helped with the coverage ..but because they work full time at low wage jobs ..they earn too much and fall in between the cracks.
These are the people who *should* be rewarded for their efforts. They do work hard. And they are poor.
We had a woman at work – made a decent salary ..and knew exactly how to scam the system. We employees fell for her sob stories until really seeing what happened. After her daughter went off to college ..she took in foster boys with disabilities and then adopted them. Caused additional problems for her. But she got free food, toys, clothes, computers and all kinds of things.
People have under the table jobs… or other financial sources. They know exactly how to scam the system. there is no other explanation.
The other thing is that they could be poor, but are willing to go without just so they can have the bling, etc.
Even the unemployment extension. It is for people that truly need it and are actively looking for work. But I know of 2 people that recently did not make the effort and have enjoyed the time off. One person got 22,000 dollars when they made no where near that much when they worked for a little over a year at a med billing office before being laid off.
With the job market the way it is..it is do easy to say you can’t get work. Just submit half-assed resumes, etc. Gee ..no one is calling ..I wonder why?
Unbelievable that she was not embarrassed. Then ..what kind of role model is she to her children ..teaching them to be dishonest and scam the system?
Why? Why is is so difficult to come in and revamp a system?
I don’t know about this case in particular. But I would be afraid to be too quick to judge “well-off adults” + “kids on Medicaid” They could be through set-up through the foster system even if they are nieces or grandchildren.
Dear Sigh,
I’m sorry that you’ve gotten the impression that people would be upset about your daughter’s earrings and your cell phone. While many of the commenters are being extreme, most doctors and nurses would never expect you to sell your daughter’s $120 earrings to pay for your medical care, nor would they judge you for having Medicaid. Although this kind of conversation is common in certain environments (particularly emergency departments, where stress is high and continuity and time to understand patients’ lives is low), in places like my clinic anyone talking this judgmentally about patients would get his hat handed to him. We never know what situations people are in or how they got there when we first meet them. After we know more, we find out that the Cadillac was a loan from a friend for the week, that the iPhone’s service is cut off and can still play games but has no function as a phone, that the “gold” jewelry is fake, and that “ice cream” means a 50 cent popsicle that is a rare treat for the children to make up for the fact they’ve been in the emergency room all day.
Yes, there are people who abuse medicaid. There are people who abuse medicare. We lose far more money, however, due to tax loopholes (many banks and corporations paid no tax last year!) This constant harping on “entitlements” is a clever way to keep us from realizing that the people who are really stealing our money are the millionaires.
Congratulations on your schooling and on following the best budget you can. Your daughter deserves the best care available, as do all people in this country.