Comments on: What’s Fair? http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2010/07/whats-fair/ A blog from inside the emergency department Wed, 08 Feb 2012 04:31:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: ED RN http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2010/07/whats-fair/#comment-24121 ED RN Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:40:13 +0000 http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=4911#comment-24121 I hate to see them whine and cry too but, I have to admit, I smile a little when I see a physician not give in to that type of demanding behavior. I say tell them no and if they throw a fit call security and put them out on their a$$!!! I hate to see them whine and cry too but, I have to admit, I smile a little when I see a physician not give in to that type of demanding behavior. I say tell them no and if they throw a fit call security and put them out on their a$$!!!

]]> By: Roberto http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2010/07/whats-fair/#comment-24118 Roberto Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:19:15 +0000 http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=4911#comment-24118 The following article could be illuminating http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/dreznik/Shariati.pdf The following article could be illuminating http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/dreznik/Shariati.pdf

]]> By: Sharon MD http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2010/07/whats-fair/#comment-24085 Sharon MD Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:26:02 +0000 http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=4911#comment-24085 Dear Sigh, I'm sorry that you've gotten the impression that people would be upset about your daughter's earrings and your cell phone. While many of the commenters are being extreme, most doctors and nurses would never expect you to sell your daughter's $120 earrings to pay for your medical care, nor would they judge you for having Medicaid. Although this kind of conversation is common in certain environments (particularly emergency departments, where stress is high and continuity and time to understand patients' lives is low), in places like my clinic anyone talking this judgmentally about patients would get his hat handed to him. We never know what situations people are in or how they got there when we first meet them. After we know more, we find out that the Cadillac was a loan from a friend for the week, that the iPhone's service is cut off and can still play games but has no function as a phone, that the "gold" jewelry is fake, and that "ice cream" means a 50 cent popsicle that is a rare treat for the children to make up for the fact they've been in the emergency room all day. Yes, there are people who abuse medicaid. There are people who abuse medicare. We lose far more money, however, due to tax loopholes (many banks and corporations paid no tax last year!) This constant harping on "entitlements" is a clever way to keep us from realizing that the people who are really stealing our money are the millionaires. Congratulations on your schooling and on following the best budget you can. Your daughter deserves the best care available, as do all people in this country. Dear Sigh,
I’m sorry that you’ve gotten the impression that people would be upset about your daughter’s earrings and your cell phone. While many of the commenters are being extreme, most doctors and nurses would never expect you to sell your daughter’s $120 earrings to pay for your medical care, nor would they judge you for having Medicaid. Although this kind of conversation is common in certain environments (particularly emergency departments, where stress is high and continuity and time to understand patients’ lives is low), in places like my clinic anyone talking this judgmentally about patients would get his hat handed to him. We never know what situations people are in or how they got there when we first meet them. After we know more, we find out that the Cadillac was a loan from a friend for the week, that the iPhone’s service is cut off and can still play games but has no function as a phone, that the “gold” jewelry is fake, and that “ice cream” means a 50 cent popsicle that is a rare treat for the children to make up for the fact they’ve been in the emergency room all day.

Yes, there are people who abuse medicaid. There are people who abuse medicare. We lose far more money, however, due to tax loopholes (many banks and corporations paid no tax last year!) This constant harping on “entitlements” is a clever way to keep us from realizing that the people who are really stealing our money are the millionaires.

Congratulations on your schooling and on following the best budget you can. Your daughter deserves the best care available, as do all people in this country.

]]> By: JZ http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2010/07/whats-fair/#comment-24058 JZ Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:00:22 +0000 http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=4911#comment-24058 I don't know about this case in particular. But I would be afraid to be too quick to judge "well-off adults" + "kids on Medicaid" They could be through set-up through the foster system even if they are nieces or grandchildren. I don’t know about this case in particular. But I would be afraid to be too quick to judge “well-off adults” + “kids on Medicaid” They could be through set-up through the foster system even if they are nieces or grandchildren.

]]> By: Supremacy Claus http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2010/07/whats-fair/#comment-24005 Supremacy Claus Tue, 27 Jul 2010 02:14:01 +0000 http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=4911#comment-24005 WC: Very fair, proper, and civilized. I was just teasing you. I believe in open debate, personal insults, and even in non-imminent death threats. The US Supreme Court has taken just that position in policy debates. Let 'er rip, they said. Example, threatening to kill a Supreme Court Justice or saying one needs to die for his stance on abortion, to save babies, allowed. Saying to someone within the room, holding a weapon, proceed with your assassination attempt... not allowed, and a crime on its own. Ad hominems are not all bad, sometimes they serve to summarize the position of an opponent. For example, I call someone a paranoid schizophrenic who refuses to take medication, people understand, they need to verify his claims independently. If I call someone a genius, in a sincere tone, people should also understand. They need to verify his claims independently. If you are going to ban negative ad hominems, I suggest you ban positive ones too. In some cases, the ad hominem attack is equivalent to knocking over your king in chess, a sign of surrender to a hopeless position. Left wing people attack the person often. Why? Because the facts abandoned the Left about 100 years ago. So it is a sign of rhetorical victory by the target. WC: Very fair, proper, and civilized. I was just teasing you. I believe in open debate, personal insults, and even in non-imminent death threats. The US Supreme Court has taken just that position in policy debates. Let ‘er rip, they said. Example, threatening to kill a Supreme Court Justice or saying one needs to die for his stance on abortion, to save babies, allowed. Saying to someone within the room, holding a weapon, proceed with your assassination attempt… not allowed, and a crime on its own.

Ad hominems are not all bad, sometimes they serve to summarize the position of an opponent. For example, I call someone a paranoid schizophrenic who refuses to take medication, people understand, they need to verify his claims independently. If I call someone a genius, in a sincere tone, people should also understand. They need to verify his claims independently. If you are going to ban negative ad hominems, I suggest you ban positive ones too.

In some cases, the ad hominem attack is equivalent to knocking over your king in chess, a sign of surrender to a hopeless position. Left wing people attack the person often. Why? Because the facts abandoned the Left about 100 years ago. So it is a sign of rhetorical victory by the target.

]]> By: WhiteCoat http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2010/07/whats-fair/#comment-23993 WhiteCoat Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:26:28 +0000 http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=4911#comment-23993 Thank you for this message. I think that this and several other people who have posted about their real plights in struggling to pay for medical bills help to put things into perspective for many of us providing the care. And I also think that if you mention these types of things to your medical providers, in general they will bend over backwards to help you. If only there was some way to reliably weed out the abusers - both to keep money in the system and to keep the people who really need the services from being viewed in the same light as those who abuse the system. Thank you for this message.
I think that this and several other people who have posted about their real plights in struggling to pay for medical bills help to put things into perspective for many of us providing the care.
And I also think that if you mention these types of things to your medical providers, in general they will bend over backwards to help you.
If only there was some way to reliably weed out the abusers – both to keep money in the system and to keep the people who really need the services from being viewed in the same light as those who abuse the system.

]]> By: Sigh http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2010/07/whats-fair/#comment-23991 Sigh Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:13:00 +0000 http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=4911#comment-23991 Defend USA and Nurse K <--hey btw I loved your blog): Yes I am willing to take gifts. I am desperate. I am living right on the edge and w/o my family support I don't know where I'd be. Someplace very bad. A disaster could easily topple my family. I haven't had to pay for baby clothes yet and it has been wonderful. They have also gotten me lots of practical things from my family like a crib and a stroller. They aren't top of the line but they work. I DO sell my baby clothes to consignment stores after I'm done using them. I sell most of them anyway before even using them because they give me too many. I've made about $500 so far which has gone to my rent and utilities and school bills. I am not materialistic. The only things I personally splurge on are books from Goodwill or the clearance sections in used bookstores. Sometimes I sell my books later if I need to pay for emergency things. (I have a whole set of first edition Harry Potter Hardcovers (all from Goodwill for $2 a piece) that I know I can get a good price on at half price books- I'm just saving them for an emergency.) As soon as I found out I was pregnant I sold all my video games except for a few favorites and I've sold almost all my CDs and movies and also a few books (these are hard to part with for me). I've sold my clothes and jewelery. These things have paid for my rent and school and child related expenses. I have minimal student loans so far because of this. I participate in psychology experiments and I'm now considering taking part in a medication study and selling my blood. I eat cheap and buy bulk. I work as a part time nanny. I plan and plan and plan. But childcare is expensive (it runs me about $293 a week). School is expensive and I still can't afford health care. My last hospitalization would have run me about $30,000. If I sold everything I had right now and drained all my saving and loans and bank accounts I'd be lucky to get a third of that. Please understand. I make sacrifices. I sell many of my nice things. I do keep some of my gifts. Not because I deserve them or because I'm a gimme person, but because selling the six designer dresses I keep because I consider the profit from them negligible in comparison from what I've already sacrificed (I'd get about $50 if my consignment shop holds consistent). I keep the earrings because they are a tie to a culture in the south pacific that is very far away. They comfort me. As a parting note: I propose that the stereotyping isn't my fault. I propose that stereotyping is bad. That you (general you) should look critically at a person and not assume based on your own prejudices. I propose that people should be better than that. BTW Clause: hehehe. I like trolls. Defend USA and Nurse K <–hey btw I loved your blog):

Yes I am willing to take gifts. I am desperate. I am living right on the edge and w/o my family support I don't know where I'd be. Someplace very bad. A disaster could easily topple my family. I haven't had to pay for baby clothes yet and it has been wonderful. They have also gotten me lots of practical things from my family like a crib and a stroller. They aren't top of the line but they work.

I DO sell my baby clothes to consignment stores after I'm done using them. I sell most of them anyway before even using them because they give me too many. I've made about $500 so far which has gone to my rent and utilities and school bills. I am not materialistic. The only things I personally splurge on are books from Goodwill or the clearance sections in used bookstores. Sometimes I sell my books later if I need to pay for emergency things. (I have a whole set of first edition Harry Potter Hardcovers (all from Goodwill for $2 a piece) that I know I can get a good price on at half price books- I'm just saving them for an emergency.) As soon as I found out I was pregnant I sold all my video games except for a few favorites and I've sold almost all my CDs and movies and also a few books (these are hard to part with for me). I've sold my clothes and jewelery. These things have paid for my rent and school and child related expenses. I have minimal student loans so far because of this. I participate in psychology experiments and I'm now considering taking part in a medication study and selling my blood.

I eat cheap and buy bulk. I work as a part time nanny. I plan and plan and plan. But childcare is expensive (it runs me about $293 a week). School is expensive and I still can't afford health care. My last hospitalization would have run me about $30,000. If I sold everything I had right now and drained all my saving and loans and bank accounts I'd be lucky to get a third of that.

Please understand. I make sacrifices. I sell many of my nice things. I do keep some of my gifts. Not because I deserve them or because I'm a gimme person, but because selling the six designer dresses I keep because I consider the profit from them negligible in comparison from what I've already sacrificed (I'd get about $50 if my consignment shop holds consistent). I keep the earrings because they are a tie to a culture in the south pacific that is very far away. They comfort me.

As a parting note:
I propose that the stereotyping isn't my fault. I propose that stereotyping is bad. That you (general you) should look critically at a person and not assume based on your own prejudices. I propose that people should be better than that.

BTW Clause: hehehe. I like trolls.

]]> By: WhiteCoat http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2010/07/whats-fair/#comment-23990 WhiteCoat Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:05:04 +0000 http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=4911#comment-23990 SC - You are correct. I changed it. Thanks. Oh, and in my defense, I will state that he started it. SC –
You are correct. I changed it. Thanks.
Oh, and in my defense, I will state that he started it.

]]> By: Nurse K http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2010/07/whats-fair/#comment-23983 Nurse K Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:49:22 +0000 http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=4911#comment-23983 When I was really, really poor, like no food, no money for basics poor, I just told my family members to buy me gift cards to the grocery store, and not to buy anything super-duper expensive for my son because I would just sell it. And I did. Everything you need for a one or two-year-old is at a garage sale. Puzzles for 25 cents, Fisher-Price whatever for a couple bucks... When they bought Tommy Hilfiger jeans, baby Nikes and Polo shirts, I sold all that, WITH TAGS, on eBay and bought way more clothes or whatever else with the money. Sure, it pissed them off, but whatever. Not poor anymore :) When I was really, really poor, like no food, no money for basics poor, I just told my family members to buy me gift cards to the grocery store, and not to buy anything super-duper expensive for my son because I would just sell it. And I did. Everything you need for a one or two-year-old is at a garage sale. Puzzles for 25 cents, Fisher-Price whatever for a couple bucks…

When they bought Tommy Hilfiger jeans, baby Nikes and Polo shirts, I sold all that, WITH TAGS, on eBay and bought way more clothes or whatever else with the money. Sure, it pissed them off, but whatever. Not poor anymore :)

]]> By: Nurse K http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/2010/07/whats-fair/#comment-23982 Nurse K Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:36:09 +0000 http://www.epmonthly.com/whitecoat/?p=4911#comment-23982 I still think you're racist, WC, because you didn't make the patient sound white enough in the story. People may have possibly assumed that they weren't white as a result. Next time say that the mom is going to buy the children "organic, soy-milk ice cream" then go to The Gap for a khaki cargo-shorts run to avoid being accused of racism. I still think you’re racist, WC, because you didn’t make the patient sound white enough in the story. People may have possibly assumed that they weren’t white as a result. Next time say that the mom is going to buy the children “organic, soy-milk ice cream” then go to The Gap for a khaki cargo-shorts run to avoid being accused of racism.

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